Over Rotating

[pku]

Noman,

Watch the video and see how the over-rotating cause imbalance of taichiskiing and comapare his skiing with those high end skier you like. If you find anything similar capture the picture and show to us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqlfGVrT ... dded#at=27

See how many times he over rotate and cause the outside ski slip out. He can't really link smooth turns.

See how the Japan and Korea 's short turn, they rotate to turn but they are doing just a little bit.

YouTube - Technical Comparison Short Radius 1

[normanding]

要看太極兄的動作，得先了解他的核心發力是從什麼地方開始，最後就是要從中挑出可以核對的動作。

我剪了兩段，請把焦點放在他的腰及他的雪板上面。

第一段：他的上半身就是所謂的過度旋轉，但這對他來講並不是問題，一般來講，過度旋轉會容易造成動作鎖死，轉彎死板，但這段影片的重點是在第三節，他的上半身已轉過度，但他的下半身卻能併腳繼續轉一個C彎，原因很簡單，他使用的是腹腰的力量帶動兩隻腳，加上一點點的EDGE就能完成他想要做的目標了，不需要大傾角，也沒有大打滑。如果他是真的所謂的過度旋轉，那他在這一段上半就沒能這麼順併腳彎一個C了。

YouTube - 太極兄的彎法


第二段：請把雙膝彎曲多少拿掉，因為interski拍的角度不好，所以很難比較清晰，但我們可以注意兩點，上半身的轉動帶動下半身，用慢動作看可發現，太極兄用上半身先轉時，他的動作有歸零，就是上半身面向雪板的指向，上半身轉動後，下半身馬上就跟著轉，在這一截上，他就沒有所謂的上半身過度旋轉的問題，所以這兩節影片要注意的焦點應要放在上半身帶動下半身這個動作上，把曲膝的部份拿掉，自然就能比對這個動作了。不過兩片放在一起，就會發現，interski的動作對太極兄來講，太用力了，不要那麼用力，放鬆一點，傾角就會淺一些，滑起來也舒服，畢竟我們不會時時刻刻都滑得這麼硬性吧？

YouTube - 太極兄的小彎



ps. 大家應該要體諒一下太極兄，對一個有長短腳的問題又要拿拐杖，還能併腳到這程度，真的不容易耶。如果以上分析有錯，也別吐我口水，僅提供個人看的角度而已。

[beg]

要看太極兄的動作，得先了解他的核心發力是從什麼地方開始，最後就是要從中挑出可以核對的動作。

我剪了兩段，請把焦點放在他的腰及他的雪板上面。

第一段：他的上半身就是所謂的過度旋轉，但這對他來講並不是問題，一般來講，過度旋轉會容易造成動作鎖死，轉彎死板，但這段影片的重點是在第三節，他的上半身已轉過度，但他的下半身卻能併腳繼續轉一個C彎，原因很簡單，他使用的是腹腰的力量帶動兩隻腳，加上一點點的EDGE就能完成他想要做的目標了，不需要大傾角，也沒有大打滑。如果他是真的所謂的過度旋轉，那他在這一段上半就沒能這麼順併腳彎一個C了。

YouTube - 太極兄的彎法

第二段：請把雙膝彎曲多少拿掉，因為interski拍的角度不好，所以很難比較清晰，但我們可以注意兩點，上半身的轉動帶動下半身，用慢動作看可發現，太極兄用上半身先轉時，他的動作有歸零，就是上半身面向雪板的指向，上半身轉動後，下半身馬上就跟著轉，在這一截上，他就沒有所謂的上半身過度旋轉的問題，所以這兩節影片要注意的焦點應要放在上半身帶動下半身這個動作上，把曲膝的部份拿掉，自然就能比對這個動作了。不過兩片放在一起，就會發現，interski的動作對太極兄來講，太用力了，不要那麼用力，放鬆一點，傾角就會淺一些，滑起來也舒服，畢竟我們不會時時刻刻都滑得這麼硬性吧？

YouTube - 太極兄的小彎


ps. 大家應該要體諒一下太極兄，對一個有長短腳的問題又要拿拐杖，還能併腳到這程度，真的不容易耶。如果以上分析有錯，也別吐我口水，僅提供個人看的角度而已。

太極兄?兩小ロ和好如初了

[normanding]

太極兄?兩小ロ和好如初了

毫無建設的發言，下次有人再問我，我也懶得講了。

[skier888]

要看太極兄的動作，得先了解他的核心發力是從什麼地方開始，最後就是要從中挑出可以核對的動作。

我剪了兩段，請把焦點放在他的腰及他的雪板上面。

第一段：他的上半身就是所謂的過度旋轉，但這對他來講並不是問題，一般來講，過度旋轉會容易造成動作鎖死，轉彎死板，但這段影片的重點是在第三節，他的上半身已轉過度，但他的下半身卻能併腳繼續轉一個C彎，原因很簡單，他使用的是腹腰的力量帶動兩隻腳，加上一點點的EDGE就能完成他想要做的目標了，不需要大傾角，也沒有大打滑。如果他是真的所謂的過度旋轉，那他在這一段上半就沒能這麼順併腳彎一個C了。

YouTube - 太極兄的彎法

第二段：請把雙膝彎曲多少拿掉，因為interski拍的角度不好，所以很難比較清晰，但我們可以注意兩點，上半身的轉動帶動下半身，用慢動作看可發現，太極兄用上半身先轉時，他的動作有歸零，就是上半身面向雪板的指向，上半身轉動後，下半身馬上就跟著轉，在這一截上，他就沒有所謂的上半身過度旋轉的問題，所以這兩節影片要注意的焦點應要放在上半身帶動下半身這個動作上，把曲膝的部份拿掉，自然就能比對這個動作了。不過兩片放在一起，就會發現，interski的動作對太極兄來講，太用力了，不要那麼用力，放鬆一點，傾角就會淺一些，滑起來也舒服，畢竟我們不會時時刻刻都滑得這麼硬性吧？

YouTube - 太極兄的小彎


ps. 大家應該要體諒一下太極兄，對一個有長短腳的問題又要拿拐杖，還能併腳到這程度，真的不容易耶。如果以上分析有錯，也別吐我口水，僅提供個人看的角度而已。

It is fine if this is the way you like to ski but don't claim it is better than xSIA or any other system.

There is a lot of mass in upper body. Not only you like to move it up and down but you also like to move it from side to side. You can considered it is high end in your system but this is low end in most other systems.

You can achieve the same by not rotating your upper body that way. When you are able to keep you upper body stable and independent of lower body. There is tension/energy or torque stored when your lower body turns relative to the upper body. The lower body will spring back to align with upper body when the energy is released. This is more efficient and fast because it move much smaller mass. This is called 康特兒. If you are really good, you can have the lower body spring left and right with less effort. The key is the ability to hold and release this force at will. It is efficient but difficult to do. That is why high end skiing uses this technique. Over rotation is an easy technique and is considered a beginner technique because it is the default movement for a beginner and it is very easy to do.

So what confuse us is that you keep on boasting how great your method is but all you are practicing is the gross movements. None of you role models do it your way. They all do it the way I described

[pku]

It is fine if this is the way you like to ski but don't claim it is better than xSIA or any other system.

There is a lot of mass in upper body. Not only you like to move it up and down but you also like to move it from side to side. You can considered it is high end in your system but this is low end in most other systems.

You can achieve the same by not rotating your upper body that way. When you are able to keep you upper body stable and independent of lower body. There is tension/energy or torque stored when your lower body turns relative to the upper body. The lower body will spring back to align with upper body when the energy is released. This is more efficient and fast because it move much smaller mass. This is called 康特兒. If you are really good, you can have the lower body spring left and right with less effort. The key is the ability to hold and release this force at will. It is efficient but difficult to do. That is why high end skiing uses this technique. Over rotation is an easy technique and is considered a beginner technique because it is the default movement for a beginner and it is very easy to do.

So what confuse us is that you keep on boasting how great your method is but all you are practicing is the gross movements. None of you role models do it your way. They all do it the way I described

Totally agree.

[normanding]

我沒有想要澄清或證明哪系統優於哪系統，只是找相似的動作出來而已，提出過度旋轉對太極兄來說並不是真實的問題而已。

counter_turn，是一種滑法。

在我出門滑雪拍片前已提過，用不好變初學者，用得好變高手，但要用得好是有條件的，不可否認，這動作真正用的好是複雜的。

但我想太極兄提出他的系統優於其他系統，我相信每家系統都認為自己優於其他家系統。

我覺得系統比較，也要分類別，例如某個系統可以讓初學者很快變成高手，或是某個系統可以讓他們容易得到世界冠軍，或是某個系統可以如何如何，那要如何比較，就只能各自表述囉。

太極兄的核心技術在於利用武術的方法融入滑雪上，這在其他家系統所沒有的，所以他要這麼稱乎也不能說不對。武術在於利用本身人體最小的力量發揮最大的效果，這點用眼睛看不一定為憑，除非自己肯定能做出對方一模一樣的動作。

我最近提到的全身伸展的方式，我也能歸類在用武術的方法去求證，當然，這動作並不稀奇，而重點是在於如何表現運用來做出相同或是相似的動作，但我卻體悟出即使是初學者也能很簡單又容易也幾乎不花力氣做出全身伸展的動作，幾乎不需要練習，馬上講馬上就能做得出來的動作，我指的不是站在平地上做，而是在不著地時也能很輕鬆做出這個動作來，這就算是一個系統技巧了，那這樣是否能說我的方法系統優於別家呢？

所以大家在這誰優於誰上鑽牛角尖，太辛苦了，論壇討論本來就很容易變成各自表述，不過在失去理性的亂劈，還是希望節制一點囉。

[skier888]

ps. 大家應該要體諒一下太極兄，對一個有長短腳的問題又要拿拐杖，還能併腳到這程度，真的不容易耶。如果以上分析有錯，也別吐我口水，僅提供個人看的角度而已。

你說的沒錯。假如有個跛腳的人跟你說他跑的比你快，跳的比你高。你還當他是跛腳嗎

[skier888]

我沒有想要澄清或證明哪系統優於哪系統，只是找相似的動作出來而已，提出過度旋轉對太極兄來說並不是真實的問題而已。

counter_turn，是一種滑法。

在我出門滑雪拍片前已提過，用不好變初學者，用得好變高手，但要用得好是有條件的，不可否認，這動作真正用的好是複雜的。

但我想太極兄提出他的系統優於其他系統，我相信每家系統都認為自己優於其他家系統。

我覺得系統比較，也要分類別，例如某個系統可以讓初學者很快變成高手，或是某個系統可以讓他們容易得到世界冠軍，或是某個系統可以如何如何，那要如何比較，就只能各自表述囉。

太極兄的核心技術在於利用武術的方法融入滑雪上，這在其他家系統所沒有的，所以他要這麼稱乎也不能說不對。武術在於利用本身人體最小的力量發揮最大的效果，這點用眼睛看不一定為憑，除非自己肯定能做出對方一模一樣的動作。

我最近提到的全身伸展的方式，我也能歸類在用武術的方法去求證，當然，這動作並不稀奇，而重點是在於如何表現運用來做出相同或是相似的動作，但我卻體悟出即使是初學者也能很簡單又容易也幾乎不花力氣做出全身伸展的動作，幾乎不需要練習，馬上講馬上就能做得出來的動作，我指的不是站在平地上做，而是在不著地時也能很輕鬆做出這個動作來，這就算是一個系統技巧了，那這樣是否能說我的方法系統優於別家呢？

所以大家在這誰優於誰上鑽牛角尖，太辛苦了，論壇討論本來就很容易變成各自表述，不過在失去理性的亂劈，還是希望節制一點囉。

How do you move larger mass with less strength Look at your own writing. You can't even resolve the conflicts between what you write and what you do

I am not talking about counter_turn.

[snowrider]

... counter_turn，是一種滑法。

...

New terminology?

Is the counter-rotation that you want to say? 若置 !

[normanding]

New terminology?

Is the counter-rotation that you want to say? 若置 !

不覺得你這樣說，很容易變成自以為是嗎？

這樣說來，下面那裏面說的名詞也是錯的，是嗎？

http://www.goski.com.tw/forum/showpost. ... ostcount=2

ps. 難道自以為是的問法後就順便沒禮貌的亂叫名詞？

[snowrider]

不覺得你這樣說，很容易變成自以為是嗎？

這樣說來，下面那裏面說的名詞也是錯的，是嗎？

http://www.goski.com.tw/forum/showpost. ... ostcount=2

ps. 難道自以為是的問法後就順便沒禮貌的亂叫名詞？

Really! I am surprised! In our knowledge domain, there is no such term "counter_turn", but there is "counter-rotation". OK, now I know that you have collected something. Good!

I am wondering who the author of that book is? What is that book title?

[skier888]

Really! I am surprised! In our knowledge domain, there is no such term "counter_turn", but there is "counter-rotation". OK, now I know that you have collected something. Good!

I am wondering who the author of that book is? What is that book title?

It is a mougul technique for speed control. This is a very specific way to ski. Every time counter is mentioned, he think this. He understands it partially and is confused.

[snowrider]

Hey I found it:

http://books.google.com/books?id=IrNS2- ... ul&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=h0wi44 ... &q&f=false

[skier888]

Hey I found it:

http://books.google.com/books?id=IrNS2- ... ul&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=h0wi44 ... &q&f=false

That is norman's bible. Counter in this context refers to the skis turning up hill what is opposite to where the skis should turn (downhiil) next.

[snowrider]

That is norman's bible. Counter in this context refers to the skis turning up hill what is opposite to where the skis should turn (downhiil) next.

I'll need to take time to take a look this book. It seems to me that this book might be out dated.

[snowrider]

Page 10 ("Choosing your equipment"):

If I follow his "Ski length calculator", I would need the skis for at least 185 cm.
(Note that I am currently using 170 cm and 158 cm skis.)

The information in this book is way out-dated!

[snowrider]

Page 12, it recommends to wear "thick cotton, silk or woollen socks".

This book is full of fallacy! Cotton is very bad for sports, for it will retain the wet and moisture.

[snowrider]

It is a mougul technique for speed control. This is a very specific way to ski. Every time counter is mentioned, he think this. He understands it partially and is confused.

OK. I have this enough after skimming throught the book! Now I totally understand what's going on 若置 thinks.

In our context, when we say counter, we mean counter stance, counter rotation, or counter rotary movement etc.

His "counter_turn" is actually nothing but keeping turning back to uphill.

佩服 佩服 his imagination!

[snowrider]

It is a mougul technique for speed control. This is a very specific way to ski. Every time counter is mentioned, he think this. He understands it partially and is confused.

I do see that that book talks about using "counter_turn" on mogul, which is a big fallacy!

Actually, IMO, that counter_turn will be useless for skiing mogul. I don't know how good the book author is. Or may he did not reveal the real secret.

The key skills for skiing mogul are flexsion and extension.