Quiet Upper Body

[pku]

I am taught to ski with a quiet uppr body.

Can anybody share their opinion?

[snowrider]

I am taught to ski with a quiet uppr body.

Can anybody share their opinion?

First off, congratulations to the new moderator. (The admin 若置 finally gave out some of his power because he realizee that he was not able to keep the forum in good order.)

Yes, skiing with a quiet upper body is also what I have been taught. If we draw a line of the CM, a good skier will have a smoother line than that of a less experienced skier. Especially, the line (of CM) in bump skiing or short radius turn will be close to a straight one.

[snowrider]

As I have mentioned couple times about the 5th element (the Directional Movement) of PSIA's skiing elements, it's really about the movement of the body. That how we are moving the body to the direction that we are skiing to, is the topic that Directional Movement is about.

Some beginner skiers (e.g., 若至) may mistakenly think that the advanced dynamic skiing requires bending upper body from the hip. It is a very wrong misconception. Without being able to hold the upper body in a stable and controlled state, the skier won't be able to understand the power of counter rotary movement (i.e., the power of releasing a winding spring). That's one of the reasons that I am not happy about 若至's acting like a master when he actually does not know much.

[skier888]

Quiet upper body is the result. One actually has to be pritty active, not easy, only minority can do it.

[PSBoy]

I am not sure what your definition of quiet upper body is.

I agree with skier888.

I would say one should manage the upper body movement actively.

[beg]

I think the upper body should face to the direction you going.

[Observer]

I think the upper body should face to the direction you going.

What you said is true.

In medium or long turns, the body should face the direction of your travel. Otherwise, there will be a toque exerted to divert your ski's line of travel.

[Observer]

...until ready for direction change.

[Observer]

For short radius turns, the body is to face the fall-line all the time because it is the direction one is travelling while the skis are turned 'below' you

[pku]

I am not sure what your definition of quiet upper body is.

I agree with skier888.

I would say one should manage the upper body movement actively.

YouTube - Short Turns and Quiet Upper Body Illusion


YouTube - Classic Short Radius Turns


The upper body is quiet, very littler up and down movement while the hands is swinging with very good throw ( always keep the basket moving )

[skier888]

What you said is true.

In medium or long turns, the body should face the direction of your travel. Otherwise, there will be a toque exerted to divert your ski's line of travel.

Mostly or basically true but...

upper body can help control edge angle so it also depends on what you want to achieve. The torque can be stored and not released. How much you can store will depend on your strength. It is like yoga. A good yoga practioner can balance on one foot when the body all twist up.

It seems that *SIA also talk about steering. While CISA talk about active rotation of the feet to guide skis. In a more general sense, steering can be done by releasing the torque at the right time if you can hold it, that is. This is passive rotation.

[Observer]

Mostly or basically true but...

upper body can help control edge angle so it also depends on what you want to achieve. The torque can be stored and not released. How much you can store will depend on your strength. It is like yoga. A good yoga practioner can balance on one foot when the body all twist up.

It seems that *SIA also talk about steering. While CISA talk about active rotation of the feet to guide skis. In a more general sense, steering can be done by releasing the torque at the right time if you can hold it, that is. This is passive rotation.

We are talking about the direction of the upper body facing when doing the long radius turn. See the first montage.

If one twist the upper body towards the fall line during the long radius carving turn, the skis will tend to break away from the edge hold.

Try just by standing on your feet pointing straight, now turn your upper body towards right. You will feel that your right leg is being 'pulled' to turn right (though you may try to hold it, but nevertheless there is this toque or force there which is not desirable in doing the long radius turn.

[skier888]

We are talking about the direction of the upper body facing when doing the long radius turn. See the first montage.

If one twist the upper body towards the fall line during the long radius carving turn, the skis will tend to break away from the edge hold.

Just by standing on your feet pointing straight, now turn your upper body towards right. You will feel that your right leg is being 'pulled' to turn right. This is what we do not want in doing the long radius turn.

On your second point, "In a more general sense, steering can be done by releasing the torque at the right time if you can hold it, that is. This is passive rotation", I do not understand that. Care to explain or elaborate that?

What you said here. You can hold it and not let it affect your skis and let out at the right time

What you said is true.

In medium or long turns, the body should face the direction of your travel. Otherwise, there will be a toque exerted to divert your ski's line of travel.

[Observer]

What you said here. You can hold it and not let it affect your skis and let out at the right time

I made some changes to my previous post while you just replied.

Basically I said, "... that You will feel that your right leg is being 'pulled' to turn right (though you may try to hold it, but nevertheless there is this toque or force there which is not desirable in doing the long radius turn. "

[skier888]

I made some changes to my previous post while you just replied.

Basically I said, "... that You will feel that your right leg is being 'pulled' to turn right (though you may try to hold it, but nevertheless there is this toque or force there which is not desirable in doing the long radius turn. "

Maybe for certain school, but not all schools think that way. The path the skis travel is different from the path body travels. Is there torque caused by there difference in paths? Torque can be canceled if you know how to do it.

[Observer]

Maybe for certain school, but not all schools think that way. The path the skis travel is different from the path body travels. Is there torque caused by there difference in paths? Torque can be canceled if you know how to do it.

Yes, the path that skis travel is different from the path the body travels. But the direction the body faces is another issue.

Please look at the 4 montages that I posted earlier and notice the racer/skier body positions.

"Torque can be canceled if you know how to do it"

Why create the toque anyway when it needs to be cancelled.

[Observer]

skier888, I tried to PM you, but received this message:

skier888 選擇了不接受私人簡訊或者沒有接受私人簡訊的許可權。因此您不能給他(她)發送私人簡訊。

[skier888]

I basically agree with you and beg so my post is just to compliment what has been said. Do you watch freestyle skier? When they grab with one hand, they most likely will raise another hand. That is not just for cosmetic reason. It is to cancel torque. If you have movement, you are likely to introduce torque in some way. Sometimes you cancel it unknowingly

[PSBoy]

The upper body is quiet, very littler up and down movement while the hands is swinging with very good throw ( always keep the basket moving )

pku, thanks for your videos

I think in the videos the skiers manage the upper body movement actively so that they can keep the upper body 'quiet' (i.e. minimizing the up and down movement as well as upper body rotation). Hope I do not misunderstand your meaning. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Meanwhile, Harb Harald also suggests the upper body management (via counter-balancing and counter-acting) to facilitate edge angle control. See this video.

YouTube - Harald Harb Ski Lessons - Quick Tip - Counterbalancing & Counteracting - #4/6


Disclaimer: It does not mean I fully understand the counter-balancing and counter-acting as well as promote PMTS. In fact, I attempt to share what I found in the real world for our discussion.

[Observer]

I had HH's first VHS video tape, yes tape, that came out years ago, "Anyone can be a Expert Skier". I have been trying to learn the PMTS way though I was trained the CSIA way. I have all HH's DVDs.

Some of you may not know that PMTS is at odds with the PSIA (EpicSki). The basic criticism from HH is the 'wedge' or snowplow and the, what he called the dreaded, up un-weigh motion (essentially, PSIA and CSIA are similar.)

PMTS promotes the phantom move, TFR (two footed release), brush carve...

Instead of a long drawn discussion, let me summarize what I feel about PMTS:

Basically, it is for advanced skiers, for racing, and it takes speed. Should be good for pku

I have 'gone back' to the CSIA way basically, because I ski 'slow'