pivot slip, tfr 和混合體

[ams]

有沒有心得要分享一下 另, 不知大法的那一章包含 femur rotation 呢.

[Vicente]

有沒有心得要分享一下 另, 不知大法的那一章包含 femur rotation 呢.

Pivoting turn 是 XXIA的基礎, 所以偶常練Braquage, 被阿德ski visuallization 歸在初中級.

大法要大師來說ㄡ~~

[ams]

Pivoting turn 是 XXIA的基礎, 所以偶常練Braquage, 被阿德ski visuallization 歸在初中級.

你們尊業的可跟我們休閒派的大不相同, 你們可能是追求每個動作都能做到完美罷

[norman]

刻滑兄：

您要不要嚐試不要把注意力放在轉動雙腳，只要把重心平均放在雙腳上就好，然後把注意力放在腰臀上，上半身一樣保持不動，在做up時，輕輕旋轉腰臀來帶動雙腳轉動就好。

因為依示範片來對照您的動作時，您的山腳都會忍不住為了保持平行，但又做不到而抬腳再轉動，這樣一抬腳反而用的力道又太多了，所以造成雙腳的力量壓力不平衡。

我大概知道您師父強調練這個動作的用意，但練對跟練不對則差了十萬八千里呢，對高手來講，反推這些動作是簡單的，但是對未真正了解的人來講，是很難搞懂高手的用意要點在哪裏。

這僅是我的看法。

[PSBoy]

...然後把注意力放在腰臀上，上半身一樣保持不動，在做up時，輕輕旋轉腰臀來帶動雙腳轉動就好...

Norman, just my 2 cents! According to my understanding, up unweighting is not required in the pivot slips. Also, pelvis (腰臀) is also treated as part of the upper body that should be kept in stable. Please correct me if I misunderstood your meaning

[skier666]

在做up時，輕輕旋轉腰臀來帶動雙腳轉動就好。

大師眼力也有脫臼的時候 懂跟不懂差了十萬八千里呢

[skier666]

Norman, just my 2 cents! According to my understanding, up unweighting is not required in the pivot slips. Also, pelvis (腰臀) is also treated as part of the upper body that should be kept in stable. Please correct me if I misunderstood your meaning

I agree with you as usual

[PSBoy]

I agree with you as usual

Thanks

BTW, I have finished a quick look of the Harald Harb's DVDs and anyone can be an expert skier 1 & 2. I think I have a bit impression of his skiing for our future discussion

[norman]

Norman, just my 2 cents! According to my understanding, up unweighting is not required in the pivot slips. Also, pelvis (腰臀) is also treated as part of the upper body that should be kept in stable. Please correct me if I misunderstood your meaning

您說的都沒有錯，但我並沒有希望完全照pivot slip做，我只是希望刻滑兄先嚐試把雙腳能藉由一點點的up放棄鋼邊，利用點臀腰的力量將雙腳能平均的轉順，這個方式覺得轉順後，再加強不要做up也行，甚至不想用臀腰的力量做也行，因為這動作是原來的動作放大版，最後取其中就行了。

[ams]

我只是希望刻滑兄先嚐試把雙腳能藉由一點點的up放棄鋼邊，利用點臀腰的力量將雙腳能平均的轉順，這個方式覺得轉順後，再加強不要做up也行，甚至不想用臀腰的力量做也行，因為這動作是原來的動作放大版，最後取其中就行了。

大師高見 相信這是其中一個練習方法, 我也曾試過這樣練 但我舊師傅叫我不要這樣練. 可能目的是要集中練習 femur rotation 的功力罷

[Vicente]

您說的都沒有錯..........................利用點臀腰的力量將雙腳能平均的轉順，..................................最後取其中就行了。

"您說的都沒有錯", 大師還是不知道我們說甚麼.


聽不下別人的話, 一直誤導.

Upper body: 含臀部以上的.
Lower body: 只有腿和腳.
Separation: upper body still and quiet, lower body leads turning effort.

滑雪的動作, pivoting, edging and pressure control, 都是說lower body (腿和腳)

希望大師能聽進去.
不說了.

[skier666]

不是大家不了解大師而是大師常在不適當得時候發表高見。

如果你發表的意見是教刻畫人把這個動作做得更好，我們不會有意見。但是你要他不做他要做的練習，就反其道而行

[PSBoy]

您說的都沒有錯，但我並沒有希望完全照pivot slip做...

Thanks for your confirmation. Perhaps, I misunderstood your intention and objective

[PSBoy]

Upper body: 含臀部以上的.
Lower body: 只有腿和腳.
Separation: upper body still and quiet, lower body leads turning effort.

滑雪的動作, pivoting, edging and pressure control, 都是說lower body (腿和腳)

Thanks Vicente for your detailed explanation.

[norman]

"您說的都沒有錯", 大師還是不知道我們說甚麼.


聽不下別人的話, 一直誤導.

Upper body: 含臀部以上的.
Lower body: 只有腿和腳.
Separation: upper body still and quiet, lower body leads turning effort.

滑雪的動作, pivoting, edging and pressure control, 都是說lower body (腿和腳)

希望大師能聽進去.
不說了.

我講了那麼久，還不了解我講的嗎？嚴格來講，我把身體分成上、中、下三部份，但中間這腰臀雖也算是上半身，但它一樣可以再對腰部以上再進行上下分離的作法。:fm (34):

所以我才問刻滑兄要不要嚐試練習看看一下，不過照您解釋的這個來看，我覺得不必要練習了，因為這種分法思維是無法了解我的意思的，我只覺得……:20070217213814:

也因為這種分法練習，難怪進步那麼慢呀！:20070217213814:

[Vicente]

我講了那麼久，還不了解我講的嗎？嚴格來講，我把身體分成上、中、下三部份，但中間這腰臀雖也算是上半身，但它一樣可以再對腰部以上再進行上下分離的作法。:fm (34):

所以我才問刻滑兄要不要嚐試練習看看一下，不過照您解釋的這個來看，我覺得不必要練習了，因為這種分法思維是無法了解我的意思的，我只覺得……:20070217213814:

也因為這種分法練習，難怪進步那麼慢呀！:20070217213814:

Upper body : strong turning force with imbalance.
Lower body : weak turning force with balance.

furthermore, upper body turn=> natural and easy to do.
lower body turn=> need discipline and harder to perform.

問題是--- ski 要暴發力as base ball or golf 嗎 ? 對skier而言, 怎樣的學習過程才好? 先易後難(有一些習慣想改卻改不掉), 或先難後易? 可能沒有一定的答案, 但目前多數的滑雪系統選擇 "先難後易".

That is my two cents.

[PSBoy]

嚴格來講，我把身體分成上、中、下三部份，但中間這腰臀雖也算是上半身，但它一樣可以再對腰部以上再進行上下分離的作法...

Norman, I believe that you have some reasons to support your methodology (i.e. 我把身體分成上、中、下三部份). If you don't mind, please tell me what are the major strong reasons? I think this is a good way to show the advantages of your approach As the same time, you can learn the good stuff from the other teaching systems as well.

...也因為這種分法練習，難怪進步那麼慢呀...

Honestly, your tone may be a bit over. Perhaps, this sentence is well worth to consider - 對某些人來說, 我這方法可能有較佳的進步.

As I know, you are a gentleman Please come with me - we (you and me) try to discuss ourselves instead of talking about others. You can easily find some people who like to do that in the different forums. You can also see that they are unwelcome members usually. As adults, we have the right to believe or not believe – it is up to your own choice Respect is the key for our communication Have a nice day!

[norman]

Upper body : strong turning force with imbalance.
Lower body : weak turning force with balance.

furthermore, upper body turn=> natural and easy to do.
lower body turn=> need discipline and harder to perform.

問題是--- ski 要暴發力as base ball or golf 嗎 ? 對skier而言, 怎樣的學習過程才好? 先易後難(有一些習慣想改卻改不掉), 或先難後易? 可能沒有一定的答案, 但目前多數的滑雪系統選擇 "先難後易".

That is my two cents.

Vicente兄：

那我的入門方式最低要求要能用外側腳平穩走完high C的位置，這個算不算難呢？

您說的這難易分法我不太認同，用上半身帶動下半身也不是一個初學者應該學的方法，前面的基礎沒搞定，就算一開始這麼練，也是沒有用的，因為方法跟力道一樣不對。

其實不管從哪個方向學起，初學者一定有壞習慣的，有時某些動作在某種程度是壞習慣，但是如果能從某些特定的壞習慣中提煉出其中一部份正確的用法，那這壞習慣是有助於進步的，而自己自然就會把壞習慣中的大部份不需要的提煉掉，所以，什麼才叫做真正的壞習慣呢？這答案只有從中一路學上來的人才可能了解吧？

[norman]

Norman, I believe that you have some reasons to support your methodology (i.e. 我把身體分成上、中、下三部份). If you don't mind, please tell me what are the major strong reasons? I think this is a good way to show the advantages of your approach As the same time, you can learn the good stuff from the other teaching systems as well.

我昨晚已剪了那影片了，雖然他也是只用一般上下半身分離的方法，但也暗中說明了一些事了。

關於這個，在下個雪季還沒機會拍片前，不如就多多看一下我拍的直排輪動作囉。

Honestly, your tone may be a bit over. Perhaps, this sentence is well worth to consider - 對某些人來說, 我這方法可能有較佳的進步.

As I know, you are a gentleman Please come with me - we (you and me) try to discuss ourselves instead of talking about others. You can easily find some people who like to do that in the different forums. You can also see that they are unwelcome members usually. As adults, we have the right to believe or not believe – it is up to your own choice Respect is the key for our communication Have a nice day!

關於您說的這部份，您想得太嚴重了，我只是針對這種分法感到無力感而已，完全不針對任何人，只針對這種身體只分兩個部份來看的方法實在……不茍同:20070217213814:

就當派別不同囉。

[skier666]

Honestly, your tone may be a bit over. Perhaps, this sentence is well worth to consider - 對某些人來說, 我這方法可能有較佳的進步.

As I know, you are a gentleman Please come with me - we (you and me) try to discuss ourselves instead of talking about others. You can easily find some people who like to do that in the different forums. You can also see that they are unwelcome members usually. As adults, we have the right to believe or not believe – it is up to your own choice Respect is the key for our communication Have a nice day!

I just hope he does not treat his kids this way