Let me try to explain, and you should let it go at that...
This high level racing technique is way beyond our/your ability to emulate.
Look at the montage below again:
Due to the extreme speed and the need of high edge angle at, say, #8, the racer needs to angulate the amount "a" to achieve that edge angle of the skis to the snow (probably 70 degrees). And to avoid falling flat on the snow, he needs to angulate the amount "b". He is not sitting back as in some of our slow recreational skiing.
Also notice that from #1 (high ski edge angle), he is going through the transition #2, #3, and #4 to get to flat skis. Here he did it by "down-unweighing" -- by pulling his legs up towards his chest #4 (as versus "up-unweighing" that we normally do)
In #5, #6, and #7, he is extending his legs out to the other side in changing to the other side of the ski edges.....
#22 回覆: Good Skiing
發表於 : 週一 4月 11, 2011 10:37 pm
由 lelo
Observer 寫:Let me try to explain, and you should let it go at that...
This high level racing technique is way beyond our/your ability to emulate.
1. Both videos that you presented are short turns, except in the first video there is a section having some medium turns. But both videos are taken head-on and very few, if any, side views. So you cannot clearly see their hip position.
The erect body position is for recreational 'slower speed' skiing and not racing position.
2. For the Koreans, if you look at the head-on shots, they are not that different to the two videos that you presented. Also the Koreans may be racers, and even when they free ski, they assume racer's body position.
I will attempt a less technical way to explain it. Do you know what is yours ski's sweet spot? The Koreans bend more because they are skiing lower (the knees bend more). Their mess is behind. In order to be on the sweet spot, they need to bend more like you see. You won't see the bending when they ski in a more upright position.
There is one obvious thing to me. The APSI set their edges very late. No high C engagement. The Koreans ski the high C and has early edge engagement and it is very obvious in normal speed. The Koreans also make rounder turns. I can other differences but that maybe because of my taste is different
Watch Richie Berger short turn's DVD(gear 1 to gear 6) will understand the difference of sking lower and sking higher.
#26 回覆: Good Skiing
發表於 : 週二 4月 12, 2011 12:07 am
由 lelo
skier888 寫:I will attempt a less technical way to explain it. Do you know what is yours ski's sweet spot? The Koreans bend more because they are skiing lower (the knees bend more). Their mess is behind. In order to be on the sweet spot, they need to bend more like you see. You won't see the bending when they ski in a more upright position.
Here are two photos of the great Austrian racer, Hermann Maier. For WC racing, their whole body position is different to our recreational skiing.
#29 回覆: Good Skiing
發表於 : 週二 4月 12, 2011 9:30 am
由 skier888
lelo, I post this reply to skibum last year and you also reply to her too.
The sweet spot is the optimal position for most efficient balnace on skis.You will ski with least amount of effort if you are inside the sweet spot. You can go fast, slide, skid and you will feel stable as long as you adjust your balance inside the sweet spot. Sometimes we heard about a ski being less forgiving. What it means is that it has smaller sweet spot. Beginner skis usually are more forgiving and don't panalize bad balance but it suffers in performance. Do you know what is your skis' sweet spot?
#30 回覆: Good Skiing
發表於 : 週二 4月 12, 2011 12:41 pm
由 PSBoy
lelo 寫:...不必像韓國人那樣前彎上半身...
In the deep flexion situation, skier should bend the upper body forward to maintain the optimal forward lean. You can refer to the A3 of the attached image (by Bob Barnes).
#31 回覆: Good Skiing
發表於 : 週三 4月 13, 2011 7:24 am
由 lelo
PSBoy 寫:In the deep flexion situation, skier should bend the upper body forward to maintain the optimal forward lean. You can refer to the A3 of the attached image (by Bob Barnes).
我的看法是韓國人根本是 B 類姿勢的標準示範。
#32 回覆: Good Skiing
發表於 : 週三 4月 13, 2011 11:26 am
由 PSBoy
lelo 寫:我的看法是韓國人根本是 B 類姿勢的標準示範。
Got it. Anyway, I agree with pku.
pku 寫:A sit back stance can't turn the skis that fast since the front of the skis is not engaged. The Korean guys turn so fast and well control their turns, it is impossible for them to sit back, may be occasionally one or two turns.
Enjoy your skiing
#33 回覆: Good Skiing
發表於 : 週三 4月 13, 2011 11:53 am
由 Observer
PSBoy 寫:Got it. Anyway, I agree with pku.
You really agree with lelo on this?
#34 回覆: Good Skiing
發表於 : 週三 4月 13, 2011 12:40 pm
由 skier888
Observe and ankle. The angle formed by B is equal to 90 degree. It is rudimentary.
BTW, I don't know what that graph is really trying to show
#35 回覆: Good Skiing
發表於 : 週三 4月 13, 2011 1:26 pm
由 PSBoy
Observer 寫:You really agree with lelo on this?
Well...I mentioned in my last post - I agree (同意) with pku and got it (了解 lelo's message). '同意' and '了解', they have different meanings
Agree or disagree is not that important. Lelo has a right to make his choice. Wish he would have a good learning progress.
#36 回覆: Good Skiing
發表於 : 週三 4月 13, 2011 1:41 pm
由 skier888
PSBoy 寫:Well...I mentioned in my last post - I agree (同意) with pku and got it (了解 lelo's message). '同意' and '了解', they have different meanings
Agree or disagree is not that important. Lelo has a right to make his choice. Wish he would have a good learning progress.
I have been thinking about what BB said in the thread you posted.
#37 回覆: Good Skiing
發表於 : 週三 4月 13, 2011 2:14 pm
由 Observer
PSBoy 寫:Well...I mentioned in my last post - I agree (同意) with pku and got it (了解 lelo's message). '同意' and '了解', they have different meanings
Agree or disagree is not that important. Lelo has a right to make his choice. Wish he would have a good learning progress.
Sorry, my mistake. Your agreed with pku, and not with lelo.
#38 回覆: Good Skiing
發表於 : 週三 4月 13, 2011 2:18 pm
由 skier888
FWIW, one thing to look at is that they jet from the ski tails right before transition. This makes it appear aft. They are not aft when they reach the start of the next term as you can see the edge engagements is at the front of the skis.
#39 回覆: Good Skiing
發表於 : 週三 4月 13, 2011 2:38 pm
由 PSBoy
I said that before
PSBoy 寫:不明白的, 世上那會有人說得明! 善哉! 善哉!
如要明白, 一字記之曰: 悟
#40 回覆: Good Skiing
發表於 : 週四 4月 14, 2011 12:18 am
由 pku
skier888 寫:FWIW, one thing to look at is that they jet from the ski tails right before transition. This makes it appear aft. They are not aft when they reach the start of the next term as you can see the edge engagements is at the front of the skis.
