什麼是Turn-skiing？

[norman]

什麼是Turn-skiing？

我從來不提這個字，是因為我不懂它的定義界線在哪裏？

而就字面上的意思來看，這個「轉彎技術」一詞的意義涵蓋太廣，因為我會覺得只要是轉彎都算是這個字，除非您用橫滑下山，完全不用轉彎。

即然skier666兄提出這個字，不妨解釋一下什麼是「轉彎技術」囉，我真的不懂這個字的定義。

[skier666]

All my material are old and based on past information you have seen

http://www.goski.com.tw/forum/showpost. ... nt=14:face (330):

[norman]

All my material are old and based on past information you have seen

http://www.goski.com.tw/forum/showpost. ... nt=14:face (330):

即然您引用了太極兄的說法，代表您同意這個轉彎技術的基本論點就是「應用轉彎來改換方向及控制速度，而大部份的目的是控制速度‧」

那我有個問題要請教了。

全制動、半制動、併腿轉彎、動態併腿轉、小轉、刻滑、純刻、斜滑轉彎、線形轉彎、Z彎，以上哪些技術是符合「應用轉彎來改換方向及控制速度，而大部份的目的是控制速度‧」這個要點的，可以把這些挑出來排在「轉彎技術」下嗎？

最後一個問題就是，「線形技術」等於「純刻技術」嗎？

[skier666]

即然您引用了太極兄的說法，代表您同意這個轉彎技術的基本論點就是「應用轉彎來改換方向及控制速度，而大部份的目的是控制速度‧」

我的東西全部都是抄襲別人的，所以錯的話，不在我 當然，我也會有誤解的時候

最後一個問題就是，「線形技術」等於「純刻技術」嗎？

我個人覺得線形滑雪不可拿來與純刻技術比較。一個是蘋果，一個是橘子。反之，平板滑雪可以拿來跟純刻技術技術比較。

刻滑的技術也可以拿來滑線形滑雪（以刻滑的技術滑drifting），skidding 也可以。有效率嗎，大概沒有比slipping 有效率，但要滑是可以的。太極大師也重來沒說過線形滑雪一定要用slipping滑。他也認可別的技巧可以做綫形滑雪。

[skier666]

全制動、半制動、併腿轉彎、動態併腿轉、小轉、刻滑、純刻、斜滑轉彎、線形轉彎、Z彎，以上哪些技術是符合「應用轉彎來改換方向及控制速度，而大部份的目的是控制速度‧」這個要點的，可以把這些挑出來排在「轉彎技術」下嗎？

路綫是人選的。通的話，一個技巧可以滑各式的路綫

[norman]

我的東西全部都是抄襲別人的，所以錯的話，不在我 當然，我也會有誤解的時候

這到推的一乾二淨，那我就不明顯您常常為我的說法，為反對而反對又是什麼樣了？

我個人覺得線形滑雪不可拿來與純刻技術比較。一個是蘋果，一個是橘子。反之，平板滑雪可以拿來跟純刻技術技術比較。

刻滑的技術也可以拿來滑線形滑雪（以刻滑的技術滑drifting），skidding 也可以。有效率嗎，大概沒有比slipping 有效率，但要滑是可以的。太極大師也重來沒說過線形滑雪一定要用slipping滑。他也認可別的技巧可以做綫形滑雪。

太極兄本來就沒有說過線形滑雪一定要用斜滑來滑了，但他只說了一件事而已，線形滑雪是可以用Cross-through方式來滑，但是線形滑雪不等於Cross-through。所以不是指其他技術，而是Cross-through這種方法的總稱。

[norman]

路綫是人選的。通的話，一個技巧可以滑各式的路綫

通的話，應該是會隨地形及狀況來調整自己下山的方式，這絕對不會只有一種而已吧？

[skier666]

但是線形滑雪不等於Cross-through

這句話是我說的。

線形滑雪是可以用Cross-through方式來滑，但是線形滑雪不等於Cross-through。所以不是指其他技術，而是Cross-through這種方法的總稱。

Cross-through 可以 turn -skiing. 這個名詞是由turn-skiing 而來

[skier666]

通的話，應該是會隨地形及狀況來調整自己下山的方式，這絕對不會只有一種而已吧？

還是利用一樣的技巧地，只是用的方式不同

[ams]

還是利用一樣的技巧地，只是用的方式不同

你們談的月來月深奧, 很難明白啊.

[skier666]

還沒通的人分，通的人是不分的

[norman]

太極兄本來就沒有說過線形滑雪一定要用斜滑來滑了，但他只說了一件事而已，線形滑雪是可以用Cross-through方式來滑，但是線形滑雪不等於Cross-through。所以不是指其他技術，而是Cross-through這種方法的總稱。

這句話是我說的。

Cross-through 可以 turn -skiing. 這個名詞是由turn-skiing 而來

白馬非馬 Cross-through 不是 Line-skiing

但是Line-skiing 是　Cross-through

我去找出來您說過的，您說的對，不是太極兄說的，我記錯了。

原來是經過討論後，我總算有些理解把他分出來的。

不過找出來您說的話，好像跟我說的不一樣喔。

另一個問題我用粉紅字標出來，我懶得再講一遍了。

[norman]

還是利用一樣的技巧地，只是用的方式不同

您指的是Turn-skiing這個嗎？

[skier666]

The term "cross through" is coined by a PSIA coach in Colorado. I have photo montage of this type of skiing. It is easy. If you can do "cross under", you probably can do "cross through". I know people use this as their default skill in their skiing. To them, it provides flexibility of both extension and flexion at the same time.

[norman]

The term "cross through" is coined by a PSIA coach in Colorado. I have photo montage of this type of skiing. It is easy. If you can do "cross under", you probably can do "cross through". I know people use this as their default skill in their skiing. To them, it provides flexibility of both extension and flexion at the same time.

我不否認您這個說法，不過我下面那句後面有補一句。

5/5站才是最難的(我指的可是標準Cross-through的5/5站技術喔)

[taichiskiing]

The term "cross through" is coined by a PSIA coach in Colorado. I have photo montage of this type of skiing. It is easy. If you can do "cross under", you probably can do "cross through". I know people use this as their default skill in their skiing. To them, it provides flexibility of both extension and flexion at the same time.

That is interesting too, PSIA talks about "cross-over," PMTS talks about "cross-under," and I thought I was the first one to introduce the term "cross through" to epicski 5 years ago. If you search the internet, you'll find no body else talks about it neither. Can we see the montage please?

:)
IS

[skier666]

That is interesting too, PSIA talks about "cross-over," PMTS talks about "cross-under," and I thought I was the first one to introduce the term "cross through" to epicski 5 years ago. If you search the internet, you'll find no body else talks about it neither. Can we see the montage please?

:)
IS

I think the term was invented quite a while ago by a coach to describe a type of transition made by many racers. I don't remember the name. Now I am not sure he is from Colorado either. I actually think your description is a very good one because it is so much easier to understand. Most of the images I saw are with legs very flexed and will be considered as cross-under by most people. You are the first one I know doing it with a tall stand and it is obvious to me why you explain it the way you did. You definition implies the CoM travels a straight line (correct me if I am wrong, because norm keeps on saying CoM does not move which is either not specific enough or too specific for me) and that is the same with the racing style. I am guessing this is why you say it is more efficient. In my opinion, you blend in more cross-over while the racing style blends cross- under more. I am not sure norm really understands it because he always take your sentence and chop off the important words and proceed to present them as if he is the expert. That is why I like to tease him.

PS: I don’t mean to imply it is superior when I say racing style. I will need to see if I can dig out the picture.

[taichiskiing]

I think the term was invented quite a while ago by a coach to describe a type of transition made by many racers. I don't remember the name. Now I am not sure he is from Colorado either. I actually think your description is a very good one because it is so much easier to understand. Most of the images I saw are with legs very flexed and will be considered as cross-under by most people. You are the first one I know doing it with a tall stand and it is obvious to me why you explain it the way you did. You definition implies the CoM travels a straight line (correct me if I am wrong, because norm keeps on saying CoM does not move which is either not specific enough or too specific for me) and that is the same with the racing style. I am guessing this is why you say it is more efficient.

"Cross through" is not really a more advanced technique; the purpose of it is only to make the weight transfer smoother, as well as to enjoy the "water-flow" like rides. Cross-over and cross-under techniques "move" the CoM (Center of Mass) from foot to foot, whereas cross-through keeps the CoM steady with the moving inertia/慣性 and move the feet to support it, that's what I meant "not moving."

In my opinion, you blend in more cross-over while the racing style blends cross- under more. I am not sure norm really understands it because he always take your sentence and chop off the important words and proceed to present them as if he is the expert. That is why I like to tease him.

Practicing cross-through begins by using the minimum [up-and-down] movements to do the cross-over or cross-under until one day you know you CoM well enough, not to move it and move the feet to support it instead. To support the CoM/balance, most systems move the feet first then move the CoM onto them to keep balance, and that's 1,2 moves, whereas cross-through keeps the CoM steady and moves the feet to support the CoM is only 1 move. So, cross-through is simpler, so it's more efficient, thus better.

Norman, arrogant as he is, is actually learning fast; he may get it one day, given his experience on rollerblading would help. (Rollerblading's turns are just too short to make "turn skate" practical.)

PS: I don’t mean to imply it is superior when I say racing style. I will need to see if I can dig out the picture.

I was surprised because cross-through is not really in PSIA, PMTS, racing, or any other new schools discipline; they are talking about carving turns, which require a quick set on edges/tipping, they don't want to expose themselves long at this vulnerable time of transition, so cross-through is not normally taught in their technique/practice/teaching. I would like to see how they did it.

:)
IS

[skier666]

Here is one

[skier666]

I think there is cross through in PMS. Power Release used in short turn will get you this type of transition. The description also fit If you read things like long long/short, long match short...